This email exchange started after a full-frontal nude photo of Christopher Eccleston (who played the Ninth Doctor on Doctor Who) was shared on Twitter. Part of the response, in addition to squeeing over Naked!Eccleston, was, essentially, “penises look funny”/”male genitals look weird” — which is a common pronouncement whenever groups of (cis, mostly straight) women start talking about naked (cis) men, and thus served as a starting point to a conversation about the origins, and ramifications, of this meme.
Emily: Speaking of opposites combined, the conversation around Ecclescock on Twitter bewilders me. I don’t really get the whole disgust-desire that seems to be a huge current running through some heterosexualities…
The formations that produce oppositional sex are… odd… way odder to me than any given sexed part’s appearance…
Arwyn: I dunno. Like I said, I think all genitals (and many other body parts) look weird upon close study, but I am one of those people who has been known to freak myself out by contemplating my own tongue too closely, soooo…
But yeah. I’m inclined to say that some of it has to do with the male gaze, and cultural training to find only airbrushed, appropriately-tucked-away cis women’s genitals*, and bodies generally, attractive. Even (nominally/primarily) straight women don’t escape that programming, and so are boggled when confronted with the rare sight of non-airbrushed, cis male bodies. (We could argue that even the rare nude cis male bodies we are exposed to are designed by/for a male gaze; either a gay male gaze, or an aspirational straight male gaze — or some repressed combination thereof.)
(*Because heavens forbid we be forced to gaze upon errant inner labia that refuse to be contained. Or fat vulvas, or hairy vulvas, or asymetrical vulvas, or vulvas with interesting, bold coloration. And of course, intersex or non-cis vulvas mustn’t even be whispered of.)
But it does play into/arise from the creation of the myth of oppositional sex. Women are pleasing to gaze upon, therefore men cannot be. Women are beautiful, therefore men cannot be. Women are the attractors, therefore men cannot be.
I go through phases where I find some types (sexes) of bodies more compelling visually than others, as my sexuality naturally fluctuates, and I haven’t escaped entirely the cultural programming that positions women as generally more appealing, (and I’m still convinced most genitals simply look weird), but yeah, I don’t get why the things that are posited to make men “men” (penises, body hair — especially back hair, and don’t get me started on that BS) are often also culturally positioned as “unattractive”.
If you ever figure it out, let me know. :-P
Emily: Ha I’ll get on it :P
Oh I do agree that bodies do look weird upon close study – especially appendages (toes! fingers!) – but you know me, I’m curious about why and how those kinds of perceptions occur. Tucked-away is really the right phrase, it’s about proportion and all those classical aesthetics, nai? It’s interesting to me seeing Michelangelo’s David, because the way he sculpts David’s cock really is in proportion to the rest of his body and hence is visually appealing. Which clashes with the phallic idea of “bigger is better” of both straight and gay male gazes just a bit.
But it does play into/arise from the creation of the myth of oppositional sex. Women are pleasing to gaze upon, therefore men cannot be. Women are beautiful, therefore men cannot be. Women are the attractors, therefore men cannot be.
This. A lot. And I definitely agree with what you say about the male gaze. Which is why it’s so interesting that (nominally/primarily) het women internalise that position, because it’s the gaze without the desire, the value-judgment without the end. Not surprising — cos of course we take on the values of the dominant — but complicated to occupy.
But then this male gaze clashes with another cultural code: the normalising of male bodies as universal, and then general valuing of cis-maleness. Which is why a cis man’s penis is “weird” but not usually “disgusting” or whatever? So there’s a kind of moderating, an ambivalence there. Not valued or desired, but not abject, either.
Where like you say, the “uncontained” bodies that don’t fit this morphology of undesirable-but-acceptable bodies are doubly fucked. If it was a trans woman’s body pre-SRS, that’s not moderated by privilege, the bad feeling is intensified — being both a liminal body (a clash of codes about how sexed bodies are supposed to be) and being pretty low on the hierarchy of bodies in general.
And of course what’s fascinating is those kinds of abjected bodies end up as niche fetishes for the cis male gaze (disgust-desire)… where there’s no comparative commercial market of male bodies that plays into the ambivalences of cis women’s gazing/desiring (though I think it persists more as a form of vernacular culture)…
[later]
And following on from that thought about abjected bodies, it matters that Christopher Eccleston is a white dude — and hence not abject, not a categorical object of disgust. Where a black men’s cock may well be experienced as threat-disgust-desire depending on racial imaginary, rather than “weird.”
Arwyn:
But then this male gaze clashes with another cultural code: the normalising of male bodies as universal, and then general valuing of cis-maleness. Which is why a cis man’s penis is “weird” but not usually “disgusting” or whatever? So there’s a kind of moderating, an ambivalence there. Not valued or desired, but not abject, either.
Like, we’re not allowed to be disgusted by the cis male body (unless, of course, it’s not white, not thin/”fit”, not appropriately unhairy, not typical/apparently able, etc), but we’ve not been taught to find it appealing in the ways we have the idealized cis female body, so the ambivalence comes out in a feeling of “weirdness”.
There’s also something about the prudery of a culture that almost never SEES a typical naked body, and especially not a frontal male nude, the David excepted (and oft mocked for the very proportionality you pointed out). To some extent, I think the “weirdness” is also simple unfamiliarity, and especially unfamiliarity of the range of humanity (as opposed to specific familiarity with one or a small number of sets of genitals, eg those of a lover).
Emily: So the solution really is: more nudity!
Arwyn: So much yes.
Also tacos.
Emily: And burritos. A full range of snacking options.







