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	<title>Comments on: &#8220;How else would you have us say it?&#8221;</title>
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	<link>http://www.raisingmyboychick.com/2009/08/how-else-would-you-have-us-say-it/</link>
	<description>Feminist thoughts inspired by parenting a presumably-straight white male</description>
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		<title>By: armillaria</title>
		<link>http://www.raisingmyboychick.com/2009/08/how-else-would-you-have-us-say-it/#comment-1839</link>
		<dc:creator>armillaria</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Oct 2009 02:16:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.raisingmyboychick.com/?p=432#comment-1839</guid>
		<description>Hey, nice post. I found your blog pretty recently and I was happy to read that you were in agreement with Mad Pride ideas too. The one thing that I would disagree with, though, is that I wouldn&#039;t say that the roles being played out in an unequal-power situation, such as between you and Monica Roberts, are those of oppressor/oppressed. I imagine it like this: There&#039;s a jail full of prisoners who have to work for the owners, and it&#039;s got different levels, and some of the prisoners are treated better than others, but that doesn&#039;t mean that they&#039;re the ones actually *doing the imprisoning* of the worse-treated prisoners. Other than that, though, this is a really sharp, thoughtful look at how we go about being allies to each other in bad, confusing, complicated situations. 

There are so many ways in which these inequalities play each other out: Say a young boy is being treated in a way that goes against his liberty and autonomy as a human being, and it&#039;s his mother treating him this way, and I&#039;m another woman- In this situation, even though I might personally have more understanding of the mother&#039;s situation, by responsibility, first and foremost, is to defend the kid, even if it means that the mom will be pissed off or offended- though of course if there&#039;s a non-offensive way, try that first. I guess the gist of it is: One shouldn&#039;t let empathy for another person allow them to let *that* person do something that harms someone else. 

And then, of course, there&#039;s the tragic pattern of people being hurt and humiliated by authoritarian systems, who then try to regain a sense of power by hurting people when they get the chance to. It can be towards someone typically less powerful, like a child, or someone who is only less-powerful in the moment. Say a man who grew up in poverty sees a rich woman as one of the people who usually has it better than him, but for the moment, he&#039;s hired muscle in a mental institution and she&#039;s a patient. Now he can even do things without them being violent crimes, because the state has declared such violence to be *legal*! Yeah, it&#039;s fucked up all around... I should really read Pedagogy of the Oppressed, like one of my socialist friends keeps telling me to... Thanks for being a voice.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey, nice post. I found your blog pretty recently and I was happy to read that you were in agreement with Mad Pride ideas too. The one thing that I would disagree with, though, is that I wouldn&#8217;t say that the roles being played out in an unequal-power situation, such as between you and Monica Roberts, are those of oppressor/oppressed. I imagine it like this: There&#8217;s a jail full of prisoners who have to work for the owners, and it&#8217;s got different levels, and some of the prisoners are treated better than others, but that doesn&#8217;t mean that they&#8217;re the ones actually *doing the imprisoning* of the worse-treated prisoners. Other than that, though, this is a really sharp, thoughtful look at how we go about being allies to each other in bad, confusing, complicated situations. </p>
<p>There are so many ways in which these inequalities play each other out: Say a young boy is being treated in a way that goes against his liberty and autonomy as a human being, and it&#8217;s his mother treating him this way, and I&#8217;m another woman- In this situation, even though I might personally have more understanding of the mother&#8217;s situation, by responsibility, first and foremost, is to defend the kid, even if it means that the mom will be pissed off or offended- though of course if there&#8217;s a non-offensive way, try that first. I guess the gist of it is: One shouldn&#8217;t let empathy for another person allow them to let *that* person do something that harms someone else. </p>
<p>And then, of course, there&#8217;s the tragic pattern of people being hurt and humiliated by authoritarian systems, who then try to regain a sense of power by hurting people when they get the chance to. It can be towards someone typically less powerful, like a child, or someone who is only less-powerful in the moment. Say a man who grew up in poverty sees a rich woman as one of the people who usually has it better than him, but for the moment, he&#8217;s hired muscle in a mental institution and she&#8217;s a patient. Now he can even do things without them being violent crimes, because the state has declared such violence to be *legal*! Yeah, it&#8217;s fucked up all around&#8230; I should really read Pedagogy of the Oppressed, like one of my socialist friends keeps telling me to&#8230; Thanks for being a voice.</p>
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		<title>By: Sarah V.</title>
		<link>http://www.raisingmyboychick.com/2009/08/how-else-would-you-have-us-say-it/#comment-1297</link>
		<dc:creator>Sarah V.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Sep 2009 14:58:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.raisingmyboychick.com/?p=432#comment-1297</guid>
		<description>@Annie: I agree with you about the distinction, but the point is that we need to think about whether people listening to us are actually going to hear it that way.

To carry your analogy a step further: Let&#039;s say that you&#039;re going through one of the biggest emotional and practical upheavals of your life.  You&#039;re sleep-deprived, your hormones are all over the place, and you&#039;re in that state of fragility where the least negative comment has you teetering on the verge of tears.  During this time, you&#039;ve been feeding your children on McDonald&#039;s.  You feel guilty about it because you know it&#039;s not really the healthiest thing you could be feeling them (and, given the way this sort of emotional state magnifies all negative reactions, you probably feel *really* guilty).  You&#039;d really like to do better.  You know there&#039;s a dietician in town you could consult for advice on how to make the children healthier meals.  But... you also know that dietician talks about how inferior McDonald&#039;s meals are, and, in the state you&#039;re feeling at the moment, you&#039;re just not sure you can handle anyone saying anything negative.

Now, you&#039;re a strong-minded and determined woman, and, in that situation, maybe you would seek out that dietician anyway in spite of what she had a habit of saying.  But can you see that it&#039;s possible that maybe another woman in that situation would be put off by it?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Annie: I agree with you about the distinction, but the point is that we need to think about whether people listening to us are actually going to hear it that way.</p>
<p>To carry your analogy a step further: Let&#8217;s say that you&#8217;re going through one of the biggest emotional and practical upheavals of your life.  You&#8217;re sleep-deprived, your hormones are all over the place, and you&#8217;re in that state of fragility where the least negative comment has you teetering on the verge of tears.  During this time, you&#8217;ve been feeding your children on McDonald&#8217;s.  You feel guilty about it because you know it&#8217;s not really the healthiest thing you could be feeling them (and, given the way this sort of emotional state magnifies all negative reactions, you probably feel *really* guilty).  You&#8217;d really like to do better.  You know there&#8217;s a dietician in town you could consult for advice on how to make the children healthier meals.  But&#8230; you also know that dietician talks about how inferior McDonald&#8217;s meals are, and, in the state you&#8217;re feeling at the moment, you&#8217;re just not sure you can handle anyone saying anything negative.</p>
<p>Now, you&#8217;re a strong-minded and determined woman, and, in that situation, maybe you would seek out that dietician anyway in spite of what she had a habit of saying.  But can you see that it&#8217;s possible that maybe another woman in that situation would be put off by it?</p>
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		<title>By: Sarah V.</title>
		<link>http://www.raisingmyboychick.com/2009/08/how-else-would-you-have-us-say-it/#comment-1296</link>
		<dc:creator>Sarah V.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Sep 2009 14:57:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.raisingmyboychick.com/?p=432#comment-1296</guid>
		<description>@Shanta: If we were talking about a conversational situation, I would agree with you that - to some extent - it is the individual&#039;s problem if she feels herself criticised (though that does *not* absolve us of the responsibility to watch our words and think about how we can say things in a way that will avoid that feeling as much as possible while still getting the important messages across).  But we&#039;re talking about an advocacy situation, and that&#039;s different.  We are trying to persuade people to change their thinking, and, more than that, their behaviour.  And, if that&#039;s what you want to do, being sensitive to the experiences and reactions of the person you&#039;re trying to persuade generally works a whole lot better than offending them.  

You know the saying that you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar?  The problem isn&#039;t that in our aim to avoid offending people we are putting babies at risk of not being breastfed.  The problem is that offending people is likely to reduce the chances of them breastfeeding their babies.  We should try to avoid phrasing our information in offensive or hurtful ways (where possible, and I do recognise it isn&#039;t always possible) not just for the obvious reason that that&#039;s more pleasant for others, but because it&#039;s likely to increase, rather than decrease, our chances of getting women to breastfeed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Shanta: If we were talking about a conversational situation, I would agree with you that &#8211; to some extent &#8211; it is the individual&#8217;s problem if she feels herself criticised (though that does *not* absolve us of the responsibility to watch our words and think about how we can say things in a way that will avoid that feeling as much as possible while still getting the important messages across).  But we&#8217;re talking about an advocacy situation, and that&#8217;s different.  We are trying to persuade people to change their thinking, and, more than that, their behaviour.  And, if that&#8217;s what you want to do, being sensitive to the experiences and reactions of the person you&#8217;re trying to persuade generally works a whole lot better than offending them.  </p>
<p>You know the saying that you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar?  The problem isn&#8217;t that in our aim to avoid offending people we are putting babies at risk of not being breastfed.  The problem is that offending people is likely to reduce the chances of them breastfeeding their babies.  We should try to avoid phrasing our information in offensive or hurtful ways (where possible, and I do recognise it isn&#8217;t always possible) not just for the obvious reason that that&#8217;s more pleasant for others, but because it&#8217;s likely to increase, rather than decrease, our chances of getting women to breastfeed.</p>
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		<title>By: Sarah V.</title>
		<link>http://www.raisingmyboychick.com/2009/08/how-else-would-you-have-us-say-it/#comment-1295</link>
		<dc:creator>Sarah V.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Sep 2009 14:55:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.raisingmyboychick.com/?p=432#comment-1295</guid>
		<description>Blast, I still can&#039;t get my website to come up on this.  I&#039;m at http://www.goodenoughmummy.typepad.com.

@Arwyn: I&#039;m not disagreeing with the fact that our language has a great deal of effect on the way we think.  I&#039;m pointing out the other side of that coin: that our language has great power to harm a situation as well as to help it, and to do so in much more fundamental ways than leaving people with hurt feelings.  This is why it concerns me to see someone talking as though our decision as to whether or not we make a particular statement in an advocacy context should be based only on accuracy without also taking into account the potential of that statement to backfire and do more harm than good.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Blast, I still can&#8217;t get my website to come up on this.  I&#8217;m at <a href="http://www.goodenoughmummy.typepad.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.goodenoughmummy.typepad.com</a>.</p>
<p>@Arwyn: I&#8217;m not disagreeing with the fact that our language has a great deal of effect on the way we think.  I&#8217;m pointing out the other side of that coin: that our language has great power to harm a situation as well as to help it, and to do so in much more fundamental ways than leaving people with hurt feelings.  This is why it concerns me to see someone talking as though our decision as to whether or not we make a particular statement in an advocacy context should be based only on accuracy without also taking into account the potential of that statement to backfire and do more harm than good.</p>
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		<title>By: Arwyn</title>
		<link>http://www.raisingmyboychick.com/2009/08/how-else-would-you-have-us-say-it/#comment-880</link>
		<dc:creator>Arwyn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Aug 2009 05:35:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.raisingmyboychick.com/?p=432#comment-880</guid>
		<description>I disagree that &quot;inferior&quot; carries an &quot;extra vicious punch&quot;. Formula is inferior to breastmilk. Formula &lt;b&gt;feeding&lt;/b&gt; is not necessarily inferior: sometimes it is necessary (and so in that specific circumstance might be &lt;i&gt;better&lt;/i&gt;). Formula &lt;b&gt;feeders&lt;/b&gt; are in no way inferior: they are just parents doing their good enough. It might be &quot;extra vicious&quot; to say those are inferior. But the factual statement that &quot;formula is inferior&quot; is not.

An analogy: dialysis is inferior to a functioning kidney. Would someone on dialysis feel that statement was an &quot;extra vicious punch&quot;? Would they feel &lt;b&gt;guilty&lt;/b&gt; about being on dialysis? Of course not. They might hope to get a kidney transplant -- also inferior to their own working kidney, but better than dialysis. Those are all factual, inoffensive statements, because we live in a world in which OF COURSE having one&#039;s own functioning kidney is standard, no one is getting dialysis because they &quot;chose&quot; to, and there is no shame in dialysis when it is medically necessary. We are grateful for it, just as we should be grateful for formula and for donated milk. In a sane world, a non-misogynistic, non-kyriarchal world, we would feel the same about formula as we do dialysis: I am trying to talk about how we get there, and our language is a significant part of that.

You talk about language; here is what I know as a feminist: our words matter. It matters whether we say &quot;Congressman&quot; or &quot;Representative&quot;. It matters whether we say &quot;Stewardesses&quot; or &quot;Flight attendants&quot;. It matters whether we speak of &quot;mankind&quot; or &quot;humanity&quot;. Our words help establish a worldview, that can either exclude or recognize the humanity of women; similarly, our words help establish a worldview that is either anti-breastfeeding (including &quot;breast is best&quot; -- it is not best, it is the biologically expected) or in which breastfeeding is standard.

Yes, we need to watch our language to avoid unnecessary offense: thus, it is inappropriate to refer to formula as &quot;poison&quot;, or say we pity formula fed babies, or talk about &quot;those irresponsible formula feeders, they just didn&#039;t try hard enough.&quot; Those would be inexcusable, understandably off-putting. But we MUST change the way our culture talks about and therefore thinks about breastmilk and formula, and our language is an incredibly important part of that. When we change the culture, we make it possible for more women to breastfeed, and to be supported in breastfeeding.

If you disagree with such a basic precept of feminist theory, this might not be the blog for you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I disagree that &#8220;inferior&#8221; carries an &#8220;extra vicious punch&#8221;. Formula is inferior to breastmilk. Formula <b>feeding</b> is not necessarily inferior: sometimes it is necessary (and so in that specific circumstance might be <i>better</i>). Formula <b>feeders</b> are in no way inferior: they are just parents doing their good enough. It might be &#8220;extra vicious&#8221; to say those are inferior. But the factual statement that &#8220;formula is inferior&#8221; is not.</p>
<p>An analogy: dialysis is inferior to a functioning kidney. Would someone on dialysis feel that statement was an &#8220;extra vicious punch&#8221;? Would they feel <b>guilty</b> about being on dialysis? Of course not. They might hope to get a kidney transplant &#8212; also inferior to their own working kidney, but better than dialysis. Those are all factual, inoffensive statements, because we live in a world in which OF COURSE having one&#8217;s own functioning kidney is standard, no one is getting dialysis because they &#8220;chose&#8221; to, and there is no shame in dialysis when it is medically necessary. We are grateful for it, just as we should be grateful for formula and for donated milk. In a sane world, a non-misogynistic, non-kyriarchal world, we would feel the same about formula as we do dialysis: I am trying to talk about how we get there, and our language is a significant part of that.</p>
<p>You talk about language; here is what I know as a feminist: our words matter. It matters whether we say &#8220;Congressman&#8221; or &#8220;Representative&#8221;. It matters whether we say &#8220;Stewardesses&#8221; or &#8220;Flight attendants&#8221;. It matters whether we speak of &#8220;mankind&#8221; or &#8220;humanity&#8221;. Our words help establish a worldview, that can either exclude or recognize the humanity of women; similarly, our words help establish a worldview that is either anti-breastfeeding (including &#8220;breast is best&#8221; &#8212; it is not best, it is the biologically expected) or in which breastfeeding is standard.</p>
<p>Yes, we need to watch our language to avoid unnecessary offense: thus, it is inappropriate to refer to formula as &#8220;poison&#8221;, or say we pity formula fed babies, or talk about &#8220;those irresponsible formula feeders, they just didn&#8217;t try hard enough.&#8221; Those would be inexcusable, understandably off-putting. But we MUST change the way our culture talks about and therefore thinks about breastmilk and formula, and our language is an incredibly important part of that. When we change the culture, we make it possible for more women to breastfeed, and to be supported in breastfeeding.</p>
<p>If you disagree with such a basic precept of feminist theory, this might not be the blog for you.</p>
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		<title>By: Shanta @ Natural Mom Loves Prada</title>
		<link>http://www.raisingmyboychick.com/2009/08/how-else-would-you-have-us-say-it/#comment-849</link>
		<dc:creator>Shanta @ Natural Mom Loves Prada</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Aug 2009 17:31:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.raisingmyboychick.com/?p=432#comment-849</guid>
		<description>I agree with Rebecca that it is difficult to hear that a decision or situation you lived through is being in one way or another criticized. But also like she said, that is the individual&#039;s problem. 

In the case of breastfeeding, breastmilk is best, period. If you have chosen to give formula you are choosing an inferior method and there are risks and side effects of that choice. (Education)
Now if there are reasons that actively breastfeeding causes the mother emotional harm or is just not possible, the only thing I can think of is a history of abuse, a medical reason or death. Then yes, of course we are grateful that formula is an option to keep her baby alive. Yet, that baby still deserves breastmilk, and has that mother done everything possible to provide that? pumping, a wet nurse, purchasing breastmilk...(support)
In our hopes of not hurting feelings we are putting babies at risk. End of story. (responsibility)

All similar arguments can be made for natural birth, another area that is often censored to keep women from feeling badly. If you are part of the 10-15% that actually needed a cesarean birth to keep you and/or your baby alive, then you have nothing to feel bad about and you should already know that (education) - otherwise you put yourself and your baby at risk, period. (responsibility)

Now there are other issues of parenting that I don&#039;t think are that black and white yet again, everyone is sharing from their own experience so parents who don&#039;t agree can hit &quot;X&quot; and close down the page - it&#039;s not the writers job to be sensitive to the possible experience everyone else has ever had in life.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with Rebecca that it is difficult to hear that a decision or situation you lived through is being in one way or another criticized. But also like she said, that is the individual&#8217;s problem. </p>
<p>In the case of breastfeeding, breastmilk is best, period. If you have chosen to give formula you are choosing an inferior method and there are risks and side effects of that choice. (Education)<br />
Now if there are reasons that actively breastfeeding causes the mother emotional harm or is just not possible, the only thing I can think of is a history of abuse, a medical reason or death. Then yes, of course we are grateful that formula is an option to keep her baby alive. Yet, that baby still deserves breastmilk, and has that mother done everything possible to provide that? pumping, a wet nurse, purchasing breastmilk&#8230;(support)<br />
In our hopes of not hurting feelings we are putting babies at risk. End of story. (responsibility)</p>
<p>All similar arguments can be made for natural birth, another area that is often censored to keep women from feeling badly. If you are part of the 10-15% that actually needed a cesarean birth to keep you and/or your baby alive, then you have nothing to feel bad about and you should already know that (education) &#8211; otherwise you put yourself and your baby at risk, period. (responsibility)</p>
<p>Now there are other issues of parenting that I don&#8217;t think are that black and white yet again, everyone is sharing from their own experience so parents who don&#8217;t agree can hit &#8220;X&#8221; and close down the page &#8211; it&#8217;s not the writers job to be sensitive to the possible experience everyone else has ever had in life.</p>
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		<title>By: Annie @ PhD in Parenting</title>
		<link>http://www.raisingmyboychick.com/2009/08/how-else-would-you-have-us-say-it/#comment-846</link>
		<dc:creator>Annie @ PhD in Parenting</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Aug 2009 17:16:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.raisingmyboychick.com/?p=432#comment-846</guid>
		<description>You said &quot;If those women have seen you or other lactivists refer to their actions as ‘inferior’, how comfortable are they going to be in seeking out breastfeeding counsellors?&quot;

I think an important distinction here is that we are not (or at least I am not) referring to a woman&#039;s actions as inferior. Rather, we are referring to the substance (formula) as inferior. 

Personally, I don&#039;t see a big difference between &quot;inferior&quot; and &quot;just isn&#039;t as good&quot;. As far as I&#039;m concerned, they are synonyms. 

Also, I think people need to realize that just because something is inferior in absolute terms, doesn&#039;t mean it was inferior in the specific circumstances in which they used it. If you tell me that a Big Mac and fries is an inferior feeding choice compared with steamed vegetables, brown rice and grilled chicken, I will agree with you even if I happened to have fed my family McDonald&#039;s that evening because I was too exhausted to cook anything.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You said &#8220;If those women have seen you or other lactivists refer to their actions as ‘inferior’, how comfortable are they going to be in seeking out breastfeeding counsellors?&#8221;</p>
<p>I think an important distinction here is that we are not (or at least I am not) referring to a woman&#8217;s actions as inferior. Rather, we are referring to the substance (formula) as inferior. </p>
<p>Personally, I don&#8217;t see a big difference between &#8220;inferior&#8221; and &#8220;just isn&#8217;t as good&#8221;. As far as I&#8217;m concerned, they are synonyms. </p>
<p>Also, I think people need to realize that just because something is inferior in absolute terms, doesn&#8217;t mean it was inferior in the specific circumstances in which they used it. If you tell me that a Big Mac and fries is an inferior feeding choice compared with steamed vegetables, brown rice and grilled chicken, I will agree with you even if I happened to have fed my family McDonald&#8217;s that evening because I was too exhausted to cook anything.</p>
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		<title>By: Sarah V.</title>
		<link>http://www.raisingmyboychick.com/2009/08/how-else-would-you-have-us-say-it/#comment-841</link>
		<dc:creator>Sarah V.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Aug 2009 10:15:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.raisingmyboychick.com/?p=432#comment-841</guid>
		<description>AR: I&#039;ve written a lengthy critique of this post below, but want to make another point here.

When we *advocate* for a particular viewpoint, we are not merely having a conversation.  We are trying to persuade others to change their minds, and, more than that, their behaviour.  The practicality of this is that, to optimise our chances of success, we do have to put more effort into avoiding offence than we would if we were simply trading views for purposes of academic interest.  If we speak about formula in a way that offends a formula-feeding mother to the point where we make her less likely to seek breastfeeding help in the future when we need it, then we can pontificate all we like about how she should take responsibility for her own reactions rather than expecting us to alter our perfectly-truthful-and-therefore-automatically-justified statements, and maybe we&#039;ll even be right in some abstract sense.  The only problem is, none of that is going to get her baby breastfed.  But taking the extra trouble needed to modify our statements and make them less harsh, and hence make pro-breastfeeders in general look more approachable, just might.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>AR: I&#8217;ve written a lengthy critique of this post below, but want to make another point here.</p>
<p>When we *advocate* for a particular viewpoint, we are not merely having a conversation.  We are trying to persuade others to change their minds, and, more than that, their behaviour.  The practicality of this is that, to optimise our chances of success, we do have to put more effort into avoiding offence than we would if we were simply trading views for purposes of academic interest.  If we speak about formula in a way that offends a formula-feeding mother to the point where we make her less likely to seek breastfeeding help in the future when we need it, then we can pontificate all we like about how she should take responsibility for her own reactions rather than expecting us to alter our perfectly-truthful-and-therefore-automatically-justified statements, and maybe we&#8217;ll even be right in some abstract sense.  The only problem is, none of that is going to get her baby breastfed.  But taking the extra trouble needed to modify our statements and make them less harsh, and hence make pro-breastfeeders in general look more approachable, just might.</p>
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		<title>By: Sarah V.</title>
		<link>http://www.raisingmyboychick.com/2009/08/how-else-would-you-have-us-say-it/#comment-840</link>
		<dc:creator>Sarah V.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Aug 2009 10:11:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.raisingmyboychick.com/?p=432#comment-840</guid>
		<description>But there&#039;s an obvious and crucial question here that you&#039;re not asking at all: *Is* saying things in  potentially hurtful ways effecting change to a greater extent than saying the same things in less hurtful ways?  Is there any evidence whatsoever that a harshly critical statement like &#039;formula is inferior&#039; effects any greater change in the world than a less unpleasant way of stating the same thing such as &#039;formula just isn&#039;t as good&#039;?

Because I haven&#039;t seen any.  I know it&#039;s a popular theory, but I have seen *no* actual evidence for it.  And the problem is, I *have* seen evidence that that sort of criticism is harmful.  Not just because it hurts people&#039;s feelings, but for the rather more concrete reason that it may put women off seeking breastfeeding advice when they need it.  

Lots of women with breastfeeding problems are using/have used formula – they&#039;ve given their babies bottles when they were having problems because they thought it was what they had to do (or, occasionally, because it really *was* what they had to do), and/or they&#039;ve formula-fed a previous baby.  If those women have seen you or other lactivists refer to their actions as &#039;inferior&#039;, how comfortable are they going to be in seeking out breastfeeding counsellors?

Bear in mind that the world doesn&#039;t always separate itself out neatly into women needing breastfeeding support and everyone else.  That woman reading your article on feeding choices is, a few months down the line, going to be a woman making some actual feeding choices, and some of those women are going to be faced with the decision of whether or not to call a breastfeeding counsellor.  If the face of the breastfeeding movement that a woman has seen is making these kinds of comments about formula (and words like &#039;inferior&#039; really do pack an extra vicious punch over and above simply making it clear that there is a difference between formula and breastmilk), then there is a very real risk that she will be put off seeking this help when she&#039;s at her most vulnerable.  Maybe you separate out the different situations perfectly well in your mind; maybe you&#039;d never dream of making that kind of statement to a woman who&#039;d actually used formula; maybe the breastfeeding counsellor that that woman could ring would never dream of making such a statement at all under any circumstances.  But the problem is, *that woman isn&#039;t going to know that*. 

I repeat a point I touched on above: The use of words like &#039;inferior&#039; to describe formula carries an extra-vicious punch that simply talking about the differences between formula and breastmilk does not.  You&#039;ve raised the analogy of your experience as a woman without a college degree listening to others extol the disadvantages of being without a college degree.  But what you haven&#039;t said is how you&#039;d feel if someone were to make the statement that a high school education is inferior.  Not just that it isn&#039;t as good as a college education, but that it&#039;s *inferior* to a college education.  How would you feel if you heard that term used about your education at a time when you were particularly vulnerable yourself?  Are you absolutely positive that it would make no difference at all to your willingness to approach the person who used it, or other people from the same movement, on the subject of education in the future?

Your criteria for using a particular form of words seem to centre primarily around accuracy.  I feel it&#039;s just as important to put our words through a second filter: What harm will be done by these words, and is it likely to outweigh any good that they do?  Harshly critical statements about formula do have the potential to harm.  Have you any evidence that they do any good that can&#039;t be achieved in a less critical and hence less harmful way?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But there&#8217;s an obvious and crucial question here that you&#8217;re not asking at all: *Is* saying things in  potentially hurtful ways effecting change to a greater extent than saying the same things in less hurtful ways?  Is there any evidence whatsoever that a harshly critical statement like &#8216;formula is inferior&#8217; effects any greater change in the world than a less unpleasant way of stating the same thing such as &#8216;formula just isn&#8217;t as good&#8217;?</p>
<p>Because I haven&#8217;t seen any.  I know it&#8217;s a popular theory, but I have seen *no* actual evidence for it.  And the problem is, I *have* seen evidence that that sort of criticism is harmful.  Not just because it hurts people&#8217;s feelings, but for the rather more concrete reason that it may put women off seeking breastfeeding advice when they need it.  </p>
<p>Lots of women with breastfeeding problems are using/have used formula – they&#8217;ve given their babies bottles when they were having problems because they thought it was what they had to do (or, occasionally, because it really *was* what they had to do), and/or they&#8217;ve formula-fed a previous baby.  If those women have seen you or other lactivists refer to their actions as &#8216;inferior&#8217;, how comfortable are they going to be in seeking out breastfeeding counsellors?</p>
<p>Bear in mind that the world doesn&#8217;t always separate itself out neatly into women needing breastfeeding support and everyone else.  That woman reading your article on feeding choices is, a few months down the line, going to be a woman making some actual feeding choices, and some of those women are going to be faced with the decision of whether or not to call a breastfeeding counsellor.  If the face of the breastfeeding movement that a woman has seen is making these kinds of comments about formula (and words like &#8216;inferior&#8217; really do pack an extra vicious punch over and above simply making it clear that there is a difference between formula and breastmilk), then there is a very real risk that she will be put off seeking this help when she&#8217;s at her most vulnerable.  Maybe you separate out the different situations perfectly well in your mind; maybe you&#8217;d never dream of making that kind of statement to a woman who&#8217;d actually used formula; maybe the breastfeeding counsellor that that woman could ring would never dream of making such a statement at all under any circumstances.  But the problem is, *that woman isn&#8217;t going to know that*. </p>
<p>I repeat a point I touched on above: The use of words like &#8216;inferior&#8217; to describe formula carries an extra-vicious punch that simply talking about the differences between formula and breastmilk does not.  You&#8217;ve raised the analogy of your experience as a woman without a college degree listening to others extol the disadvantages of being without a college degree.  But what you haven&#8217;t said is how you&#8217;d feel if someone were to make the statement that a high school education is inferior.  Not just that it isn&#8217;t as good as a college education, but that it&#8217;s *inferior* to a college education.  How would you feel if you heard that term used about your education at a time when you were particularly vulnerable yourself?  Are you absolutely positive that it would make no difference at all to your willingness to approach the person who used it, or other people from the same movement, on the subject of education in the future?</p>
<p>Your criteria for using a particular form of words seem to centre primarily around accuracy.  I feel it&#8217;s just as important to put our words through a second filter: What harm will be done by these words, and is it likely to outweigh any good that they do?  Harshly critical statements about formula do have the potential to harm.  Have you any evidence that they do any good that can&#8217;t be achieved in a less critical and hence less harmful way?</p>
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		<title>By: Arwyn</title>
		<link>http://www.raisingmyboychick.com/2009/08/how-else-would-you-have-us-say-it/#comment-753</link>
		<dc:creator>Arwyn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Aug 2009 06:18:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.raisingmyboychick.com/?p=432#comment-753</guid>
		<description>Thanks for that comment. :) I only want to say that my definition of breastfeeding is a woman or parent giving her baby her milk, no matter the delivery method, OR a woman feeding her baby at her breast, no matter the substance.* Sure, the ideal, the biological default, is getting breastmilk from direct suckling at the breast, but it&#039;s not the only form of breastfeeding. Pumping for five months rocks. Be proud of yourself.

*I use &quot;woman&quot; and &quot;her&quot; here because the majority of parents who breastfeed are female, and this is a female-centric blog, but I know not all are. Men, both cis and trans, have been known to breastfeed (and even more have been known to nurse for comfort), and I do not mean with this to belittle or dismiss them or their breastfeeding.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for that comment. <img src='http://www.raisingmyboychick.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  I only want to say that my definition of breastfeeding is a woman or parent giving her baby her milk, no matter the delivery method, OR a woman feeding her baby at her breast, no matter the substance.* Sure, the ideal, the biological default, is getting breastmilk from direct suckling at the breast, but it&#8217;s not the only form of breastfeeding. Pumping for five months rocks. Be proud of yourself.</p>
<p>*I use &#8220;woman&#8221; and &#8220;her&#8221; here because the majority of parents who breastfeed are female, and this is a female-centric blog, but I know not all are. Men, both cis and trans, have been known to breastfeed (and even more have been known to nurse for comfort), and I do not mean with this to belittle or dismiss them or their breastfeeding.</p>
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